There are different type of interviewers in Second Life, as there are in real life. There are some who have their own chat shows, inviting their subjects into their lair, where they can tease information and insights out of an interviewee, on their home turf. Then there are those who roam the grid, looking for subjects to speak to, venturing into strange unfamiliar lands, and reporting back conversations with the most interesting and inspiring beings that they encounter. Dousa Dragonash is in the latter camp, working for metaverse-tv.com as a co-news anchor on Metaverse Weekly News, but also as a roving reporter with her own eponymous show "Out and About with Dousa Dragonash". I had the privilege of sitting down with this very self effacing and humble interviewer, at Metaverse TV's recently opened sim, designed by Lumiere Noir, to have a chat with her about what had shaped her Secondlife, and how she had ended up in this virtual line of work:


Voodoo Buwan: What initially brought you to SecondLife?

Dousa Dragonash: I have a friend, a colleague in rl, and he and I get sent away on conferences quite often. He took a long time before he vouchsafed that he was in SL and suggested that actually it would be completely my thing.

Voodoo Buwan: So, what did you initally expect coming in world? What were you hoping to do?

Dousa Dragonash: Well first of all I was curious. I had no expectation. I had never done a social networking site of any kind, not facebook nothing. I have worked with computers for years and liked games but really didn't want to talk to other people. I thought that would be truly weird. Also there is an anonymity thing for me. I find it really important to be anonymous. When I came in, the first thing that happened was that someone spoke to me. An American man. Gave me a heart attack. I hoped to sit on a beach and look at a sea. Then I suppose when I hit Help Island Public, I just thought this is completely fabulous. My head expanded and the possibilities hit me and I realized I could sit on a beach and look at a sea lol. But also I started building and changing appearance in the manner of all newbies, but fell into talking into everyone in text, for hours and hours, like I was hungry. I explored and also loved, absolutely loved, what people were creating. So I tried to have a second life. to live the life that I have lived but make the decisions that I didnt make the first time.

Voodoo Buwan: So, how did someone who came inworld thinking that the concept of talking to people was creepy, end up making her Second Life career out of conducting interviews?

Dousa Dragonash: Well I was in and out of social intercourse at one point, and I thought I am going to see what happens here in the way of occupations I have known. I had gone into a couple of writers' groups and then saw that people were doing shows. So I looked up to see in Events what was going on and saw that someone was putting together a tv show and I thought I would like to see how that works. I turned up and there were two guys there and some people hanging about very casual. I got chatting to one of the guys and he was very close to me in understanding about the business, so I suppose we kind of knew that we both were capable of doing something. He suggested me to the other guy who was Robustus Hax. I didnt do that project but he then texted me when he was looking for an Anchor. After that I just got more and more involved

Voodoo Buwan: From anchoring the Metaverse News show, you started doing your own "Out and About" interview shows. Was this something you pushed to do, or was it an organic extension what you were already doing?

Dousa Dragonash: It was organic. It was something I was really interested in doing. I love what people achieve in here and really want to celebrate it. My God, I am a titchy thing in my knowledge next to the guys who build and code and design in here. I can do bits of everything, now I dont have much time, so I try to support what happens through the programme. I am a very curious person so that much is truly unavoidable.

Voodoo Buwan: So, how do you find your potential interviewees? Do you have much assistance, or do you do all the organization yourself?

Dousa Dragonash: Ok I do everything myself. Well, organizationally. Filming and editing, I dont do, only cause it is difficult for me to follow with the camera at the same time as paying attention.

Voodoo Buwan: Well, what attracts you to a particular person as someone worthy of interviewing? What sort of thing draws you towards them as a potentially interesting and/or entertaining subject?

Dousa Dragonash: Very simple things like the turn of a prim. I wonder HOW did they do that? Or a colour or a beautiful sim. Sometimes achievements, sometimes adversity. Don't you think this platform attracts the most extraordinary range of people? People I wouldn't necessarily be able to go up to in rl and say I would really love to talk to you about you for an hour and film it. Would you mind?

Voodoo Buwan: So, it gives you the chance to ask the questions you'd like to ask, and that hopefully your audience would also like to know?

Dousa Dragonash: Ah well. audience. If I am honest, and sometimes I am, I dont necessarily think about what other people want to know. I just want to hear about the people that I am talking to cause I am genuinely interested. And I am just a person so I reckon that if I want to hear it other people might as well. The Out and About on Kimlenswomanphotographer Writer was massive cause she has had such an interesting career and life. I split it into two shows. I don't check the numbers. I just thought that work needed honouring... she was fab to interview by the way



Voodoo Buwan: SO, we're all invited along for the ride, but the ride will be leaving whether we're on the bus or not?

Dousa Dragonash: fraid so lol

Voodoo Buwan: You mentioned obviously one of your favourite interviews. Have you had any particularly difficult or challenging interviews or interviewees?

Dousa Dragonash: oh yes, amusing as well and challenging but not in the way you might expect. Some of the most challenging are challenging because of the time differences. There was one where I was in UK one person in Philippines one in Japan and one in US. We were all asleep in rl basically and awake in sl. It took some doing, pinging everywhere to wake people up, and then we were speaking English from at least four different perspectives. It was fun, but a kind of torture as well cause we were so tired.

Voodoo Buwan: Do you have anyone in SL who you would love to get to interview, but have not been able to so far?

Dousa Dragonash: Yes, two, the obvious ones of course. Anshe Chung and Philip Linden. Anshe was the first one I tried, mainly because I was knocked out by the sims and then because she is a she. I have almost started to take the ability not to be judged for being female in business for granted in here. When I describe situations I have had in RL to, particularly, Americans in here they cannot believe what happens simply because I am female.

Voodoo Buwan: Another way in which SL is providing opportunities not necessarily possible in RL?

Dousa Dragonash: I am devoted to that. That certainly when I came in it was a level playing field or felt like it at that point, for all kinds of people. I would fight to conserve that

Voodoo Buwan: You mentioned the upcoming series. What kind of thing can we expect next from Dousa Dragonash, both in that series, or in any other projects you might be working on?

Dousa Dragonash: My colleagues would say Pain. No shoes. Long legs. The MBA... that is what they would say... Well, there is the next series of Out and About which is being edited. We are producing a new comedy drama (I use the word comedy loosely) called "Into Midnight". We have new shows coming up or have just started, I am writing a new drama series for MBC and we have this fab sim now. So I guess I will have to justify its existence or Robustus will be on my tail. I do have three mega projects in mind which I think are completely perfect for SL They need massive planning and cooperation though.

Voodoo Buwan: Is there anything people can do to help with these mystery projects, or are they just on the drawing board at the moment?

Dousa Dragonash: Well one isn't just on the drawing board. I have made overtures to the person who holds the rights and they were pretty receptive. We couldn't meet up when we planned, so I have to take up the slack and go do the meet. A bit nerve racking. The other is a glint in my eye and the third one needs writing.

Voodoo Buwan: Plenty to look forward to, and keep you busy with, then?

Dousa Dragonash: Yes. I think the thing that we have to deal with most is administration

Voodoo Buwan: Finally, and on kind of a similar note, if you were to give advice to people looking to follow in your footsteps into this kind of virtual media career, what would be your top tips?

Dousa Dragonash:
no.1 If you have any doubt about doing it, don't.
no.2 Be very flexible.
no.3 Resilience.
But more than any of these really is Creativity. People nick ideas as much as content and they also repeat rl ideas. Here we can do so much more and so much faster

Voodoo Buwan: Is there anything else you would like to add?

Dousa Dragonash: I suppose there is one thing. I am bemused by being interviewed.. most of what I do is about others... or for others... Robustus Hax is very much an unsung hero to me. He puts his heart and soul and most of his life into this project. He tolerates me encourages me and allows me in a way that I have never received in RL. That kind of confidence. He has a quiet confidence and a depth of knowledge about people that I truly admire ... He is definitely one to watch. That is why I continue to do this. It makes me happy.

Read the previous article in this series:
Interviewing the Interviewers: Paisley Beebe

Over my long and varying career as an SL journalist, I think the one thing that I have become known for more than anything else, are my interviews, especially with the publication of my inworld book "Times of your (Second) Life", and the interviews I have carried out here. Over time, being know for something like this makes you start to wonder how other inworld interviewers cope with having to chat with the many and varied creatives, business people and movers and shakers in SL. So, seeing as there are so many talk shows and interviewing journalists currently operating within our digital universe, I decided to hunt down some of the most interesting, and discuss their experiences, and give you some insight into what it takes to make a good interview, and in many ways, a good interviewer.

The first on my list in the lovely and talented Paisley Beebe, who's show on SLCN, "Tonight Live with Paisley Beebe" is possibly one of the longest running and well established Second Life based talkshows around. She tends to specialize in mostly arts and culture in SL, a world she also appears in with her performances as a jazz singer, but has had everyone from musicians, games creators, bloggers, Lindens and more, sitting on her sofa, and opening up to her. Despite the fact that I am on UK time, and she is based on the other side of the planet in Australia, we eventually managed to square our diaries, and sit down to have a chat about her experiences:


Voodoo Buwan: So, what initially brought you to SL?

Paisley Beebe: A magazine article on it talking about musicians playing here

Voodoo Buwan: Ah, so you arrived inworld with hopes of extending your performing into the virtual world?

Paisley Beebe: Not really just curious about it. Didn't start playing in SL till 3 months was up. I use the computer a lot for my marketing of albums etc...

Voodoo Buwan: What inspired you to start performing? And did that come before or after you began your association with SLCN?

Paisley Beebe: I went to a gig here and asked the performer how you did it. He got me to play at his venue with my husband one night and that was it. I drew a small crowd. I picked up a manager/publicist type person who hooked me up with lots of venue owners, and then I met SLCN a few months later and stage managed an event for them. We then decided as we were both in Australia we should work together on something they just started filming in SL and started a sort of whats on show called That's life. So we thought a talk show might be good as I was in Radio in RL. We planned it, I hired some people, and off we went, just making it up as we went along. Still doing that. No one else had done it. Cypress Rosewood had a podcast, a live one with an audience, and so did Flaming Moe. that was it, no TV at all. no one to learn from. Tonight Live is the longest running Virtual TV show and there are lots now.

Voodoo Buwan: So, with your rl radio experience, you had some experience with conducting interviews?

Paisley Beebe: only a little, I had done part of a radio course, a short one and been in Community radio for 3 years. Both as a Jazz Program presenter and a Morning show host but the emphasis was on music really. I just happen to be a chronic sticky beak and nosy parker, and I tend to "interview" people constantly at parties. I enjoy it, finding out about peoples passions their lives etc... It's the actress side of me also, where I studied Characters and their motivations.... Method actress... I once spent about 5 years reading nothing but biographies, and I'm an avid watcher of Talk shows and interview shows. I study them now of course. Learning all that I can about good interview techniques and interview subjects. My sister has been a professional journalist all her life, so If I ever get stuck I ask her. She knows everyone over here in the buis, and knows what the process is in RL, and I've asked her advice on interviewing. She probably thinks Im stepping a bit on her turf but as I'm only a virtual interviewer she probably thinks its all a bit silly :)

Voodoo Buwan: On the subject of getting help from others, you mentioned you have some other people working with you on the show: Has it been hard finding the right team for such a project?

Paisley Beebe: There is no set process. Some were people recommended, some just came up and asked at the right time, some approached SLCN and we took them on. We are now attracting people who have a genuine background in digital communication or writing. To start with it was anyone that wanted to give it a go. My first Director was a seasoned podcaster but I think, now that the TV industry in SL is gaining a small foothold, it's attracting people with a more professional background within a related field, which is good because SLCN, who are about to re-brand as Treet.Tv, and myself have a real life contract, so this is well and truly my RL career now. I'm actually legally obligated to continue it. So my choice of employees has to be good choices and it's very hard to judge that as it is in RL. My 2 major criteria for a good employee are tenacity and determinism. Oh and being organised. There are a few other criteria but when your hot on the trail of a guest you have to be like a detective and not give up till you land them or exhausted every avenue without being a pest or stalking, and then the follow up of the guest getting them to give you the information you need and getting them prepared for the show also takes a great deal of tenacity and determinism. We deal of course with guests most of the time who have had no experience with any interviews of any kind in SL or RL perhaps an employment interview is the closest they have come, so we have to guide them quite a bit to make it comfortable for them whilst trying to get an interesting and entertaining interview.

Voodoo Buwan: OK, so on the subject of getting an interesting and entertaining interview, what would you say makes a good interviewee, and have you ever had to deal with a difficult subject for interview?

Paisley Beebe: ahahah... It's funny you know. I have a family of awkward difficult to talk to people, so it helps me a lot. I have a family of people with high functioning Aspergers. You learn how to talk to people. There are very few people I cannot talk to. In SL, on my show... I don't think there has been anyone that wasn't..... ok there have been maybe one or 2 and you know why? They were people with an agenda, professional PR people, who instead of "talking" to me kept spouting off their "advertising". When I tried to cut through the bullshit, I kept getting the pre-programmed marketing speak. That was hard. I interviewed a Rocket Scientist once who was really a bit shy, but I knew from the Aspies in my family once I got him on his favourite subject......rockets, he was off like one. I genuinely care about my guests. They are not just subjects for publicity to me. I have a personal history of being like that with people. I have had to learn to stand back and let people do things their own way. I've been a sort of amateur mentor all my live. Then I used to get so despondent that people wouldn't do what I thought they should to let their talent shine. I feel with this show I get to promote people in a good positive way, and hopefully help their talent to shine. I hope people sense that in my interest in them and don't fell its prying. It's really just tuning into the person, finding a place where they are comfortable and asking the right open ended questions. None of them are kidnapped into coming on the show. I think my honest curiosity and fascination with them helps. I've seen other interviewers who look bored by their subjects and I think that doesn't help at all. Maybe I'm just new at this so the novelty hasn't worn off, but I'm 47 and the novelty of being interested in people hasn't yet. The pay off for me is seeing people get their message across to a wider audience or their talent seen by a wider audience. Initially my reasons for doing this were mixed. It was in a way a job to "fall back on". I suspected that the music industry was not going to fully support me. That even in SL, I'd need a 2nd job, and I hoped that if I combined my love of radio and interviews with occasionally singing in SL, the Talk show would give me enough of a profile to get work as a singer. But what has happened is I fell in love with my 2nd job, and now its my main job. I'm now more well known for my Talk show than my singing, but that's ok. I think that this job, as crazy as it seems, has more of a future. The music industry in my country is really going through a bad slump, because of the economy etc... I can't sustain it. I've been retrenched recently there was a post on SL about the fact I'm using this show as a vehicle to promote myself. That the guests are just window dressing for my own ambitions. But my profile in SL, whatever you want to call it, is part and parcel of being on the Telly. You don't have one without the other, and I watch the most successful Talk show hosts in the world, and they all give something of themselves away in their interviews. It's horrible unless you are a political interviewer to watch an interviewer hold back or just take in an interview and not relate. Oprah, Ellen, Michael Parkinson... all have a public profile. It's about establishing a reliable brand, something that people relate to. Not just interviewing but having a conversation with your guest. When I'm interviewing, I always feel that I'm part of the conversation, even if I am only 20% of it. That's what it is supposed to be. I tend to only talk a lot when I have something important to say. I'm not good in social situations, don't like small talk, not good at it :) I tend to go from nice weather to tell me about your childhood in about 2 mins. People tell me the most extraordinary things. I guess you just have to be interested in people. You can't fake that. I used to be horribly shy at parties. I'd either have a few drinks and be the life of the party, a total clown or hide in a corner. I learnt to take interest in other people, then I felt not so shy. I discovered a gold mine of stories of fascinating history by doing this. I guess I learn about human nature and life through that.

Voodoo Buwan: Is there anyone in SL who you would love to be able to interview but have not been able to?

Paisley Beebe: No not really. Just the next inspiration. I'm in the unique position of being able to interview anyone really. People refuse because of shyness, language and not wanting to use voice, and I of course only want enthusiastic people on the show. I find the most wonderful subjects in the most low key and non-famous places. Everyone to me is on the same level. What I'd like to do is interview a RL star, for totally selfish reasons. Just to say I've done it and not fallen in a heap with nerves, and to have some RL attention for the show. Bring the ratings up and just because...it would be such a test of my skills. A real challenge. Can I cut it with the Real Life Interviewers? Having said that I'm very aware of my limitations. I'm not highly educated. I'm creative and if I interview someone it will be on a very casual basis and probably involve a very silly question or two. I appeal to the everyday person and that's what I am I reckon. I won't ever try to be cleverer than I am or I will soundly slap myself for being a pretentious twat! I'm a performer first, always have been. Terrible show off. I'm the girl that did Teacher impressions at school for a laugh, entertained the school with my pretend TV productions, plays and dances to awful 1970's music. I started at 4 years old: can't help myself, middle child syndrome.

Voodoo Buwan: Final two questions: Firstly, what advice would you give to anyone thinking about following in your footsteps?

Paisley Beebe: Well.... know who you are, what your strengths and weaknesses are. Get people around you who can fill in those gaps people who are good at things maybe your not so good at.... and....you have to have the ...here's a quote: the hide of a buffalo the heart of a dove. You have to role with the punches. If you don't love it, you won't last. I think you have to be a little bit nuts. Actually, driven and hyperfocused.

Voodoo Buwan: Finally, what's next for Paisley Beebe?

Paisley Beebe: Well, I must do some more singing. It seems such a waste of all that training and experience not to do more and I do enjoy it when I do sing. Tonight Live is about to go high definition and I have to redesign the show a little around that. I also need to earn some money :) So this year is about finding finance to support the shows I already have, Fabulous Fashion and T.L. I have about 2 or 3 other ideas for shows and I would like to get them up and running but I need finance to do it. I'm already copping huge expenses running 2 shows. It might be a Govt grant or some sort of sponsor. Advertising on TV is very slow to take off here. We can certainly compete with the other media outlets, but we are newer than other media outlets, so it takes a leap of faith... I do love the creative process of putting shows together. It's so exciting for me and because we have now some great procedures set up for our existing productions its not as hard as someone starting from scratch. I won't host the shows, I have my show, one is enough but will set up other shows for other people. I guess we are just hoping that Virtual worlds become more mainstream and that this media is as popular as it should be within the virtual population.

Voodoo Buwan: Well, there's no reason why it shouldn't be with the enthusiasm and work you're putting in. Best of luck, and thanks for taking time to talk to me